Jennifer Garvey Berger , a renowned expert in leadership development , complexity theory, and adult development, spoke to us about what it truly means to lead in an ever-changing world. Jennifer shared her perspectives on navigating rapid transformation, the mindset shifts essential for success, and practical strategies to build adaptability.
Here are the excerpts from our unfiltered conversation:
One of the biggest mistakes is to believe you know what will happen next.
The conversation began with Jennifer shedding light on the biggest leadership mistakes. She told us, “Well, one of the biggest mistakes is to believe you know what will happen next. Because in today’s world, you really can’t know what’s going to happen next. The leaders are used to thinking that they need to be ahead and be thinking about the future, predicting what’s going to happen next and trying to control what’s gonna happen next - and right now, that is impossible.”
“So, I think leaders need to change their orients, which is a hard thing to do. Still, it’s possible to change their orientation from ‘I know exactly what’s going to happen next’ to ‘I need to get myself there to go in that direction, and I need to build relationships that help us move in that direction,’” she added.
Delving deeper into the subject, we discussed how leaders can identify a growth edge, and Jennifer admitted, “It’s hard.”
She continued, “It’s easier to ask other people because we tend not to be able to see what our growth edge is. We’re inside in our own perspective, and our growth edge is right on the edge of our perspective. So, I think leaders should be much more open to feedback about what they could be working on, who could be becoming that would be helpful in this stage of the world, of the company, of my leadership.”
The balance of long-term vision as well as short-term achievement
Finding a balance between long-term and short-term goals and achievements is one of the trickiest things, and speaking about the same, Jennifer shared, “These are the two sides of the same thing; if you're not short-term agile, you will never get the long-term vision. But if you are not working on something longer than the next quarter, you’ll never build something that lasts. Humans have such a hard time working on the important when the urgent is right in front of them. I think leaders need to remind people to support them and to have a bigger view. I work with leaders, and we talk about the quarterly earnings are good, and that we need them. But if we get too attached, then our focus becomes so short-term that we can’t invest or build anything for the future. And then in a year or two, you will have no future.”
Common trends and challenges
A road with bumps hardly leads to success and in the leadership domain, nothing comes without challenges. “We have these human challenges of actually really wanting in the world where we can predict and control, and find ourselves overwhelmed when we are not in that world, find ourselves really desirous of predicting and controlling. The leaders I work with are learning how to put down a little bit of that need. Notice they have more insights into themselves. And use that insight in helping to be better to the leaders around them become more powerful. So, instead of focusing on me and my power, how can I empower a team or a group,” she shared.
How can ‘storytelling’ help drive the organizational goals?
Answering this million-dollar question, Jennifer said “Humans live on stories. It’s one of the ways we learn, one of the ways we connect, one of the ways we build culture. You would know better than me how important it is to tell stories that grab people and carry them with you. And leaders need to do that, they just need to be sure that they are not telling really simple stories. Simple like - it’s us against them or it’s this thing - cause really simple stories can become rigid and break, and not become helpful. Sure, a story can hold a lot of complexity and carry a big culture into the future.”
Further, she told us about the book and the person who had the most profound impact on her leadership philosophy. She said, “When I was working on my doctorate, I had the pleasure of reading a book by Robert Kegan called ‘In Over Our Heads,’ and then working with Rob, who eventually became my supervisor, and is now, 20 years later, a dear friend. His work, the quality of his listening, the way he thinks about humans, and the depths of his empathy. I think that has shaped me enormously as a person. So, I think tons of boos have influenced me but no one has ever influenced me as much as Robert Kegan.”
Importance of ‘ emotional intelligence ’
In the conversation, we asked her about the role of emotional intelligence in handling people, especially in a country with diversity. Highlighting the challenges and methods to deal with, she said, “Diversity is like a string, if it’s not handled well, the differences create conflict, and we get lost and we invest a lot of time in being upset with each other. At the same time, diversity is the greatest strength if handled well. It takes emotional intelligence to handle diversity well. So, you’re right to point out this idea that emotional intelligence gives us perspectives that are important and interesting and you could be tuned into them, and that’s such an important skill to develop.”
The key to lead better
Last but not least, Jennifer shared the ultimate key to becoming a better leader when she said, “Self-awareness is enormously important, otherwise, the leader is leading on the reflex. And reflexes are fine if they are honed in the exact environment you are in right now.”
“But if you are in a changing environment, you’re scaling your leadership or organization or if your market is changing, the reflexes would be good for them but not for what’s coming. Self-awareness means being able to notice where we need to grow and stretch into the growth edge question,” she concluded.
Here are the excerpts from our unfiltered conversation:
One of the biggest mistakes is to believe you know what will happen next.
The conversation began with Jennifer shedding light on the biggest leadership mistakes. She told us, “Well, one of the biggest mistakes is to believe you know what will happen next. Because in today’s world, you really can’t know what’s going to happen next. The leaders are used to thinking that they need to be ahead and be thinking about the future, predicting what’s going to happen next and trying to control what’s gonna happen next - and right now, that is impossible.”
“So, I think leaders need to change their orients, which is a hard thing to do. Still, it’s possible to change their orientation from ‘I know exactly what’s going to happen next’ to ‘I need to get myself there to go in that direction, and I need to build relationships that help us move in that direction,’” she added.
Delving deeper into the subject, we discussed how leaders can identify a growth edge, and Jennifer admitted, “It’s hard.”
She continued, “It’s easier to ask other people because we tend not to be able to see what our growth edge is. We’re inside in our own perspective, and our growth edge is right on the edge of our perspective. So, I think leaders should be much more open to feedback about what they could be working on, who could be becoming that would be helpful in this stage of the world, of the company, of my leadership.”
The balance of long-term vision as well as short-term achievement
Finding a balance between long-term and short-term goals and achievements is one of the trickiest things, and speaking about the same, Jennifer shared, “These are the two sides of the same thing; if you're not short-term agile, you will never get the long-term vision. But if you are not working on something longer than the next quarter, you’ll never build something that lasts. Humans have such a hard time working on the important when the urgent is right in front of them. I think leaders need to remind people to support them and to have a bigger view. I work with leaders, and we talk about the quarterly earnings are good, and that we need them. But if we get too attached, then our focus becomes so short-term that we can’t invest or build anything for the future. And then in a year or two, you will have no future.”
Common trends and challenges
A road with bumps hardly leads to success and in the leadership domain, nothing comes without challenges. “We have these human challenges of actually really wanting in the world where we can predict and control, and find ourselves overwhelmed when we are not in that world, find ourselves really desirous of predicting and controlling. The leaders I work with are learning how to put down a little bit of that need. Notice they have more insights into themselves. And use that insight in helping to be better to the leaders around them become more powerful. So, instead of focusing on me and my power, how can I empower a team or a group,” she shared.
How can ‘storytelling’ help drive the organizational goals?
Answering this million-dollar question, Jennifer said “Humans live on stories. It’s one of the ways we learn, one of the ways we connect, one of the ways we build culture. You would know better than me how important it is to tell stories that grab people and carry them with you. And leaders need to do that, they just need to be sure that they are not telling really simple stories. Simple like - it’s us against them or it’s this thing - cause really simple stories can become rigid and break, and not become helpful. Sure, a story can hold a lot of complexity and carry a big culture into the future.”
Further, she told us about the book and the person who had the most profound impact on her leadership philosophy. She said, “When I was working on my doctorate, I had the pleasure of reading a book by Robert Kegan called ‘In Over Our Heads,’ and then working with Rob, who eventually became my supervisor, and is now, 20 years later, a dear friend. His work, the quality of his listening, the way he thinks about humans, and the depths of his empathy. I think that has shaped me enormously as a person. So, I think tons of boos have influenced me but no one has ever influenced me as much as Robert Kegan.”
Importance of ‘ emotional intelligence ’
In the conversation, we asked her about the role of emotional intelligence in handling people, especially in a country with diversity. Highlighting the challenges and methods to deal with, she said, “Diversity is like a string, if it’s not handled well, the differences create conflict, and we get lost and we invest a lot of time in being upset with each other. At the same time, diversity is the greatest strength if handled well. It takes emotional intelligence to handle diversity well. So, you’re right to point out this idea that emotional intelligence gives us perspectives that are important and interesting and you could be tuned into them, and that’s such an important skill to develop.”
The key to lead better
Last but not least, Jennifer shared the ultimate key to becoming a better leader when she said, “Self-awareness is enormously important, otherwise, the leader is leading on the reflex. And reflexes are fine if they are honed in the exact environment you are in right now.”
“But if you are in a changing environment, you’re scaling your leadership or organization or if your market is changing, the reflexes would be good for them but not for what’s coming. Self-awareness means being able to notice where we need to grow and stretch into the growth edge question,” she concluded.
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